2007年7月1日 星期日

學習英語的策略與方法→抓主結構或翻譯-3

留言者 philo-sopher
留言時間 2007-05-23 21:34:19
標題 抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

請找出主結構,並請找出and連接什麼。
或者不要找主結構,直接翻譯。
歡迎大家試試看。

Indeed, David Frost, the husband of Margaret Frost, one of the three applicants that August day, would never forget how, after he himself had registered some years before, a white man had told him that "the white folks are the nigger's friend as long as the nigger stays in his place," but that "I had got out of my place if I was going to vote along with the white man," and how, for months thereafter, instead of calling him "David" or "Boy" as they usually did, white people called him by the word he "just hated, hated" : "Nigger"—pronounced in Alabama dialect, "Nigra"—and how, when they learned he was planning to actually vote, a car filled with men had stopped in front of his house one night and shot out the porch lights, and how, cowering inside, he had thought of calling the police, until, as the car drove away, he saw it was a police car.




留言者 philo-sopher
留言時間 2007-05-24 01:49:56
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

有沒有人要試試翻譯?



留言者 Mae
留言時間 2007-05-24 09:12:30
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

我不習慣逐字翻譯,大意就好!可以嗎?

ㄧ對黑人夫妻,David and Margaret ,當時黑人沒有選舉權,而David 爲了要爭取到選舉權,不惜犧牲他們工作而離開他們的白人主人,但後來換來的是ㄧ連串的辱罵,敵視、及生命威脅,連警察都不理會及保護他們。

主結構:(They) would never forget

1.and how: (I had got out of my place if I was going to vote along with the white man,") and (white people called him by the word he "just hated: "Nigger

2.(white people called him by the word he "just hated" : "Nigger) and (a car filled with men had stopped in front of his house one night and shot out the porch lights)

3.(a car filled with men had stopped in front of his house one night and shot out the porch lights) and
(he had thought of calling the police, until, as the car drove away, he saw it was a police car.)




留言者 悲傷茱麗葉
留言時間 2007-05-24 09:15:06
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

是不是這樣,
David Frost及 Margaret Frost 是一對夫妻
他們在結婚幾年之後,想起多年前,一個白人和他們述說他們對黑人的仇恨,及遇到黒人時,會如何對黑人
我問一下,那這裡的主要結構是否為a white man had told

留言者 philo-sopher
留言時間 2007-05-24 10:17:03
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

解釋的意思似乎有些差距。
試試用老師的方法解吧。


解長句的要點 :
一、把主結構找出來。
二、把子句找出來,子句修飾哪個字詞也一併找找看。
三、把對等連接詞and、or、but.......連接的東西找出來。
四、剩下的就是介係詞片語跟分詞片語,看看它們大概修飾什麼東西。
五、再剩下的就不是很重要的修飾語,上面那些找出來,這些就很好理解了。



附上上次說過抓主結構的大原則 :

除了介係詞開頭的片語、分詞片語、
以及when、while、where、since、because.........等開頭詞的子句(副詞子句)
會在句子前面(這些都不是主結構),
否則,
通常句子開頭那一段就是主要主詞跟動詞。



試試吧,這個解長句的方法我覺得非常好用,
這幾個句子有些很難,根本不適合初學者,
不過你們程度都很好,
再試著解解看,解出來,翻譯就不是問題了。


這幾天如果沒看到我別太想我,
還有,如果有人有問題還是盡量問吧,
這裡大家都很熱心,都會回答得很仔細,
就算萬一說錯了,老師也會出來糾正的,
放心,He is watching you.





留言者 Mae
留言時間 2007-05-24 16:54:22
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

Indeed, David Frost, the husband of Margaret Frost, one of the three applicants that August day, would never forget how, after he himself had registered some years before, a white man had told him that "the white folks are the nigger's friend as long as the nigger stays in his place," but that "I had got out of my place if I was going to vote along with the white man," and how, for months thereafter, instead of calling him "David" or "Boy" as they usually did, white people called him by the word he "just hated, hated" : "Nigger"—pronounced in Alabama dialect, Nigra"—and how, when they learned he was planning to actually vote, a car filled with men had stopped in front of his house one night and shot out the porch lights, and how, cowering inside, he had thought of calling the police, until, as the car drove away, he saw it was a police car.
翻譯:

在八月的ㄧ天 ,確實是令David Frost 難以忘懷的ㄧ天,Margaret Frost 為David Frost 的妻子,他們是三個申請人之ㄧ份子, 在幾年前他就爲自己登記了,之後就有白人告訴過他:”只要黑人在白人的地方,那位黑人就是白人的朋友,”
但是,如果我要一起和白人同樣去選舉的話,我還是必須要離開我住的地方
然後,過了幾個月之後,白人已取代 叫他的名字或”男孩”,而改叫他最恨的”Nigra” 黑鬼,而 Alabama的地方發音是“Nigger" 黑民族,接著,當白人獲知 Divid 確實有計畫要去選舉時,ㄧ輛滿載人的車在晚上就停在他家的前面,並對著門口的燈射擊,抖縮在屋內的他有想過求助於警察,直到車子開走時,他看到的那部車就是警察車啊!

主結構:
August day, would never forget

留言者 明光
留言時間 2007-05-24 18:55:56
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

"David frost,would never forget"是主結構。

留言者 明光
留言時間 2007-05-24 20:33:36
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

連接詞: but;and
that"the white folks are the nigger's friend as long as the nigger stays in his place"(but)that"I had got out of my place if I was going to vote along with the white man."

"stopped in front of his house"(and)"shot out the porch light".

"and how"有三組,如從文中取意,似為「等等的話」的意思,這三個"and" 如是連接詞,那麼"how" 就是前面講的話了。

留言者 明光
留言時間 2007-05-24 20:38:14
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

如果是堆積木的話,"and how" 將不可能合得上去。

留言者 傷腦筋
留言時間 2007-05-25 21:05:48
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

原來真相是這樣, Margaret Frost 的先生David Frost,絕不會忘記所發生的事情。幾年前的八月時他是三個申請人之一,在還沒決定參選之前,白人就告訴他,你只要安份已,白人就是會是你的朋友,但是時間到了,他卻出來和白人競選,接下來如何,幾個月之後,代替原來友善的稱呼竟是他最討厭的黑鬼, 有一天晚上一部車載了滿滿的人停在他家前面,把走廊的燈也打壞了,也擁進屋內,一直到他想叫警察,車子才駛離,天啊,那竟是警車。
一丶主結構:David Frost would never forget
二、把子句找出來,子句修飾哪個字詞也一併找找看。
副詞子句after he himself had registered some years before修飾 forget
副詞子句when they learned he was planning to actually vote, 修飾filled
名詞子句"the white folks are the nigger's friend as long as the nigger stays in his place,當told 的受詞
名詞子句it was a police car.當saw 的受詞
三、把對等連接詞and、or、but.......連接的東西找出來。
對等連接詞 but "the white folks are the nigger's friend as long as the nigger stays in his place," but that "I had got out of my place if I was going to vote along with the white man,
對等連接詞and how
"I had got out of my place if I was going to vote along with the white man," and how, for months thereafter, instead of calling him "David" or "Boy" as they usually did, white people called him by the word he "just hated, hated" : "Nigger"—pronounced in Alabama dialect, Nigra"—and how,
對等連接詞and
had stopped in front of his house one night and shot out the porch lights
對等連接詞as
he had thought of calling the police, until, as the car drove away,
對等連接詞and how
when they learned he was planning to actually vote, a car filled with men had stopped in front of his house one night and shot out the porch lights, and how, cowering inside, he had thought of calling the police, until, as the car drove away, he saw it was a police car.


留言者 陳達武老師
留言時間 2007-05-26 20:07:24
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

各位
明光和傷腦筋找對了主結構,其它的請先用刪除法將介系詞片語刪除以及將連接詞所連的東西連起來,這樣七刪八扣的所剩下的就好解了。
凡是沒有做完這些步驟的請停止一切翻譯。

留言者 Mae
留言時間 2007-05-27 18:04:31
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容


刪後如下文:


David Frost would never forget-- After he himself had registered some years before,that I had got out of my place if I was going to vote along with the white man,"for months thereafter, white people called him by the word he "just hated, hated" : "Nigger", when they learned he was planning to actually vote, a car filled with men had stopped in front of his house one night and shot out the porch lights, he saw it was a police car.



留言者 philo-sopher
留言時間 2007-05-27 21:26:29
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

師父,還是您最厲害,
請問一下 :
after he himself had registered some years before
為什麼前面有after,後面又有before?



留言者 陳達武老師
留言時間 2007-05-27 22:58:59
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

先公佈好了,省得過二天我們又要為小子擔心了:
____ David Frost, _____, _____, would never forget (how,_____, a white man had told him that "the white folks are the nigger's friend as long as the nigger stays in his place," but that "I had got out of my place if I was going to vote along with the white man,") and( how, _____, _____, white people called him by the word he "just hated, hated" : "Nigger"—_____—and (how, _____, a car filled with men had stopped in front of his house one night and shot out the porch lights), and (how, _____, he had thought of calling the police, until, as the car drove away, he saw it was a police car).


留言者 陳達武老師
留言時間 2007-05-27 23:05:29
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

該睡而不肯睡的小子:
別給我戴高帽,你這二天精神不濟,我勝你不武,等過二天你恢復精神了再回來看這題,本週三前罰你禁閉,越獄罪加一等,罰穿裙子。
其餘徒眾聽著:本週三前不許再與「小子助教」有任何問答行為,所有問答皆由本師自理,「小子」暫時解除「助教」職務,此令。

留言者 philo-sopher
留言時間 2007-05-28 02:53:19
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

師父,您那個解答蠢徒要不知就不敢出題啦,
只是突然迷惑於after he himself had registered some years before


after he himself had registered some years

after he himself had registered some years before
時間好像不一樣,
後面這一句是倒敘的,對吧?

after he himself had registered some years before發生比較早,
after he himself had registered some years發生比較晚。
這樣對了吧?
再不對,就等我清醒吧,或者等我實力好一點。



P.S.師父,不管何時您英文勝過蠢徒,都勝之不武。



留言者 陳達武老師
留言時間 2007-05-28 22:11:28
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

小子
此時你陷於昏迷狀態,我更是勝之不武,等你清醒了再說。

留言者 philo-sopher
留言時間 2007-06-01 00:50:48
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

下面這篇分析,沒學過主結構的人請先不要看,否則嚇壞了,恕不負責。

題目 :
Indeed, David Frost, the husband of Margaret Frost, one of the three applicants that August day, would never forget how, after he himself had registered some years before, a white man had told him that "the white folks are the nigger's friend as long as the nigger stays in his place," but that "I had got out of my place if I was going to vote along with the white man," and how, for months thereafter, instead of calling him "David" or "Boy" as they usually did, white people called him by the word he "just hated, hated" : "Nigger"—pronounced in Alabama dialect, "Nigra"—and how, when they learned he was planning to actually vote, a car filled with men had stopped in front of his house one night and shot out the porch lights, and how, cowering inside, he had thought of calling the police, until, as the car drove away, he saw it was a police car.



簡答 :
Indeed, David Frost, the husband of Margaret Frost, one of the three applicants that August day, would never forget
{how, [after he himself had registered some years before], a white man had told him [that "the white folks are the nigger's friend as long (as the nigger stays in his place,)"] but [that "I had got out of my place (if I was going to vote along with the white man,")]}
and
{how, for months thereafter, instead of calling him "David" or "Boy" as they usually did, white people called him by the word (he "just hated, hated" : "Nigger"—pronounced in Alabama dialect, "Nigra"—)}
and
{how, [when they learned (he was planning to actually vote),] (a car filled with men) had﹝stopped in front of his house one night﹞and﹝shot out the porch lights﹞,}
and
{how, cowering inside, he had thought of calling the police, [until, (as the car drove away,) he saw it was a police car.]}


詳細答案 :
一、主結構 : David Frost would never forget.........


二、對等連接詞連接
(一) and連接 : 四個how開頭的子句 :

{how, after he himself had registered some years before, a white man had told him that "the white folks are the nigger's friend as long as the nigger stays in his place," but that "I had got out of my place if I was going to vote along with the white man," }

and

{how, for months thereafter, instead of calling him "David" or "Boy" as they usually did, white people called him by the word he "just hated, hated" : "Nigger"—pronounced in Alabama dialect, "Nigra"—}

and

{how, when they learned he was planning to actually vote, a car filled with men had stopped in front of his house one night and shot out the porch lights,}

and

{how, cowering inside, he had thought of calling the police, until, as the car drove away, he saw it was a police car.}



二、對等連接詞連接
(一) and連接
﹝stopped in front of his house one night﹞
and
﹝shot out the porch lights﹞



(三) but連接
[that "the white folks are the nigger's friend as long (as the nigger stays in his place,)"] but
[that "I had got out of my place (if I was going to vote along with the white man,")]}




留言者 philo-sopher
留言時間 2007-06-01 00:51:18
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

三、子句

簡答 :
Indeed, David Frost, the husband of Margaret Frost, one of the three applicants that August day, would never forget
{how, [after he himself had registered some years before], a white man had told him [that "the white folks are the nigger's friend as long (as the nigger stays in his place,)"] but [that "I had got out of my place (if I was going to vote along with the white man,")]}
and
{how, for months thereafter, instead of calling him "David" or "Boy" as they usually did, white people called him by the word (he "just hated, hated" : "Nigger"—pronounced in Alabama dialect, "Nigra"—)}
and
{how, [when they learned (he was planning to actually vote),] (a car filled with men) had﹝stopped in front of his house one night﹞and﹝shot out the porch lights﹞,}
and
{how, cowering inside, he had thought of calling the police, [until, (as the car drove away,) he saw it was a police car.]}



詳答 :
(一)副詞子句 : [after he himself had registered some years before]


(二) 名詞子句,當told的受詞
[that "the white folks are the nigger's friend as long (as the nigger stays in his place,)"]
[that "I had got out of my place (if I was going to vote along with the white man,")]


(三) 副詞子句
(as the nigger stays in his place,)
(if I was going to vote along with the white man,")


(四) 形容詞子句,形容word
(he "just hated, hated" : "Nigger"—pronounced in Alabama dialect, "Nigra"—)


(五) 副詞子句
[when they learned (he was planning to actually vote),]


(六) 名詞子句,當learned的受詞
(he was planning to actually vote)


(七)名詞子句,當had stopped .....and shot........的主詞
(a car filled with men)


(八) 副詞子句
[until, (as the car drove away,) he saw it was a police car.]
(as the car drove away,)




留言者 philo-sopher
留言時間 2007-06-01 00:52:37
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

Indeed, David Frost, the husband of Margaret Frost, one of the three applicants that August day, would never forget {how, [after he himself had registered some years before], a white man had told him [that "the white folks are the nigger's friend as long (as the nigger stays in his place,)"] but [that "I had got out of my place (if I was going to vote along with the white man,")]}

確實,瑪格麗特的丈夫,也是八月那天三個申請人之一的大衛,永遠忘不了,
在他註冊後的前幾年,一個白人如何告訴他 :
『黑人呆在原位多久,白人就做他的朋友多久。』
大衛說 : 『但是,如果我想像白人一樣投票,我就必須走出原地。』



and {how, for months thereafter, instead of calling him "David" or "Boy" as they usually did, white people called him by the word (he "just hated, hated" : "Nigger"—pronounced in Alabama dialect, "Nigra"—)}

他忘不了,幾個月後,白人如何不再像以前一樣叫他大衛或男孩,
而改用阿拉巴馬土腔叫他最最討厭的"黑鬼"。



and {how, [when they learned (he was planning to actually vote),] (a car filled with men) had﹝stopped in front of his house one night﹞and﹝shot out the porch lights﹞,}
and {how, cowering inside, he had thought of calling the police, [until, (as the car drove away,) he saw it was a police car.]}
他也忘不了,當他們知道他真的計畫去投票,
有個晚上,一輛滿載男人的車子停在他家前面,開槍射穿他門廊的燈,
而他如何瑟縮在屋裡,想著要叫警察,直到車子開遠,才看到那就是警車。




留言者 philo-sopher
留言時間 2007-06-01 00:53:04
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

這篇分析如果看得眼花,那是自然,
據說,這是普立茲獎作者有名的作品,
句構非常複雜,大子句包中子句,中子句包小子句。
如果沒學過英文閱讀方法,
我很懷疑,再學五年英文我是否看得懂。



留言者 philo-sopher
留言時間 2007-06-01 00:53:25
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

為什麼英文有這麼多眼花撩亂的子句?
很簡單,
因為英文嚴格規定,
一個句子,句首大寫,句尾句點,
如果一個句子裡同時有兩個句子,
則句子間不能只用逗點連接,
非得用對等連接詞或附屬連接詞連接,
所謂附屬連接詞就是寫成副詞子句、名詞子句、形容詞子句的開頭詞。
有些開頭詞會省略。


如果同時三個以上地位對等的子句相連,
才會最後一個用連接詞and連接,其餘才以逗點代替。

看得懂這篇就請下次注意看看,是否句子的連接就像這篇所說。



留言者 philo-sopher
留言時間 2007-06-01 00:54:49
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

師父,請問shot out the porch lights該如何解釋?



留言者 philo-sopher
留言時間 2007-06-01 01:18:38
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

完了,一個地方連錯,牽動全身。:

更正 :

{how, after he himself had registered some years before, [a white man had told him {that "the white folks are the nigger's friend as long (as the nigger stays in his place,)"}] but [that "I had got out of my place (if I was going to vote along with the white man,")]}


介係詞片語 :
after he himself had registered some years before



but連接 :
[a white man had told him {that "the white folks are the nigger's friend as long (as the nigger stays in his place,)}"]
but
[that "I had got out of my place (if I was going to vote along with the white man,")]}



名詞子句,told的受詞
{that "the white folks are the nigger's friend as long (as the nigger stays in his place,)}


但是大衛說 : 『如果我想像白人一樣投票,我就必須走出原地。』



留言者 傷腦筋
留言時間 2007-06-01 20:32:53
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

philo-sopher:
原來是經典名作,難怪好深喔!不過透過你的巧手,括出子句,還有and的分析,現讀來就沒那麼難了,也開始多多讀,和看出一些頭緒了,真是名符其實的philo-sopher。

留言者 philo-sopher
留言時間 2007-06-02 01:01:15
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

腦筋,厲害,快出師了,你很多答案都對,
建議你,下次答案分隔清楚,
每題留兩行空格,
這樣保護我的眼睛,謝謝。


留言者 philo-sopher
留言時間 2007-06-02 01:01:41
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

下面這個答案可以不用理,只因怕高手抓包,所以不得不改答案。


after he himself had registered some years before

其實,這一句一樣可以當副詞子句。



留言者 Mae
留言時間 2007-06-02 08:31:36
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

philo-sopher:

我真是佩服您到五體投地,哪有學生這麼厲害的人!
您所分析的文法,我都有存在我個人的檔案裡頭,待以時日,再來慢慢消化,可能我的火侯還不到腦筋及學長的程度,因此現在說到什麼子句,我的頭就開始痛起來,心也悶起來,真遺憾無法與您好好討論此類問題。

留言者 明光
留言時間 2007-06-02 10:05:09
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

Dear Mae:
您的學習精神也不差,我可能連一半都沒有,就讓我慢慢消化吧,

留言者 philo-sopher
留言時間 2007-06-02 10:27:01
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

Mae,英文有很多文法,
所以每本文法書都厚厚一大本,
各家出版社的文法又不盡相同,
如果能看完那麼多文法書,
不如直接拿來看文章學文法,學到的文法更實用。


不過,這樣說,不代表文法全部不重要,
有些文法是紮馬步,
馬步沒學好,英文學習無法跟看過的文章成正比。
分辨子句就是紮馬步,
如果分辨不出子句,分辨不出子句跟它修飾詞的關係,
長句跟複雜句就常會解錯意,
寫出來的句子也常會錯誤連結。


分辨子句是老師的閱讀方法裡一個重要關鍵,
你只要先學會分辨什麼叫子句,
怎樣的寫法叫子句,
然後再學分辨什麼叫名詞子句、形容詞子句、副詞子句,
副詞子句有很多說明,如表原因、讓步、目的..........
這些你通通不要管它,
你只要知道什麼開頭詞所帶領的子句稱為副詞子句就行,
如when、where、which、as、because.........
這種句子跟主要子句連結時會用逗點連結,或沒逗點。
找幾個例句看,你就了解這篇的說法了。


我其實很少翻文法書,
我很多文法都是從文章體會,
從文章的寫法學文法比文法書的文法條還實用,
而且句構比文法書的例句還複雜,這樣才有助讀跟寫。
我會翻文法書,有時是為了留言,怕寫錯,
或者基本觀念沒弄清楚,
例如,搞不清楚過去完成式是否加了明確時間就可成立。


但是,如果不是搞清楚老師這套方法,
我很懷疑,我從文章學到文法是否也能像現在這樣。
我剛讀實用英文第一課時,很多長句都搞不懂,
被這方法折磨三個月後,第一課對我來說已變得很簡單,
當初讀不懂的,三個月後都懂了,
我沒有用中文翻譯輔助,
我只是不信我會敗給這套方法,努力學它而已,
還好值回票價。




留言者 Mae
留言時間 2007-06-02 18:44:44
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

謝謝明光學長的鼓勵!


philo-sopher,

您的啟蒙讓我曾經想很認真去學,而能跟上您,大概我閱讀的英文書籍還不夠,所以無法像您那麼厲害,甚麼子句都分辨得出來,我大概還可抓出文章7成的大意,在speaking 方面還算能溝通,(重要議題還能掌握住),只是不是那類高級型的(像真善美電影或高級社交那種),我知道有些句型是在修飾或補充主要句子,(我就是無法說出您們那種專業術語),但我都了解您所解釋的,只是要我自己在 整篇文章中再去找這些甚麼子句的,Oh! My Goddess! It will killing me!

我深知我的癥結處在於我的"Writing", 像您又會寫文章,又會作詩,我看您學3個月就會,我可能再磨個3年才能跟得上您哪!

However, I'll studying harder in reading first, and step by step just what's Dr. Chen taught me.I hope I will follow your ability in the near future.

留言者 傷腦筋
留言時間 2007-06-02 20:17:23
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

Dear philo-sopher:
一句美言,又讓我更有信心了。你提到要答案分隔清楚,
每題留兩行空格,還好你告知,不然也不知有何區別,我才想起做作業時,老師也要我們留空格。喔,你的留言,都很容易看,你真是smarts.


留言者 傷腦筋
留言時間 2007-06-02 21:44:57
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

Dear philo-sopher:

二) 名詞子句,當told的受詞
[that "the white folks are the nigger's friend as long (as the nigger stays in his place,)"]
:
[that "I had got out of my place (if I was going to vote along with the white man,")]

第二句也是當 told 受詞嗎?


留言者 傷腦筋
留言時間 2007-06-02 21:59:02
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

二、對等連接詞連接
(一) and連接 : 四個how開頭的子句 :

{how, after he himself had registered some years before, a white man had told him that "the white folks are the nigger's friend as long as the nigger stays in his place," but that "I had got out of my place if I was going to vote along with the white man," }

and

{how, for months thereafter, instead of calling him "David" or "Boy" as they usually did, white people called him by the word he "just hated, hated" : "Nigger"—pronounced in Alabama dialect, "Nigra"—}

and

{how, when they learned he was planning to actually vote, a car filled with men had stopped in front of his house one night and shot out the porch lights,}

and

{how, cowering inside, he had thought of calling the police, until, as the car drove away, he saw it was a police car.}
這樣子來看句子真是精彩精彩

留言者 陳達武老師
留言時間 2007-06-02 22:58:27
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

小子
1. 請問:「在他註冊後的前幾年,(after he himself had registered some years before 何意?再想想。

2. 因為 as the nigger stays in his place 你解為(黑人呆在原位多久),所以 I had got out of my place 你就必須解為(我就必須走出原地)
換個角度看,你若將前者解為﹝安於本份﹞,後者就可以解為﹝踰越本份﹞,那種解釋較合理?
由此例可見,在翻譯時,有時因為沒將上下文對照,因此當單獨解釋上文時未能顧到與後文呼應,等翻到後文時就出現很不合理的解釋,但是因為上文已經下筆成文字,下文也只能被現成的邏輯和文意牽著走,這是常見的現象。



留言者 陳達武老師
留言時間 2007-06-02 23:06:23
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

小子
shot out the porch lights,就是將人家家前廊的燈射掉,臺灣住在都市的人很少有人有機會體會前廊是甚麼樣子,對the porch lights 當然就比較不會立即聯想到是甚麼。



留言者 陳達武老師
留言時間 2007-06-02 23:13:39
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

Mae、明光、傷腦筋
不必一直仰望山有多高,只要埋頭往前走,過一陣子後回頭看,才發現原來你腳下有好多人還在山下往山上仰望,仰望,仰望,而你已在半山腰了。
加油!

留言者 philo-sopher
留言時間 2007-06-03 01:18:42
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

師父,謝謝。


after he had registered some years
註冊之後

he had registered some years before
註冊之前


(一)
after he had registered some years before,

after修飾 he had registered, after he had registered : 註冊後
before當副詞,修飾some years, some years before : 前幾年
after he had registered some years before
註冊完後的前幾年(已註冊)


(二)
he had registered some years before註完冊的幾年前。
after he had registered some years before在他註冊後的幾年前(還沒註冊)。


這些是我當時的推論,最後還是想不出來,
於是我從下文when they learned he was planning to actually vote推論,
最後決定用第一個答案 : 註冊完的前幾年(已註冊)。

我只剩第二個答案 : 在他註冊後的幾年前(還沒註冊)。
再來就超出能力了,
因為我已經夠清醒,也想了好幾天。




留言者 philo-sopher
留言時間 2007-06-03 01:20:29
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

師父,
我經常困惑,
有時原文寫得既不優美也很白話,
但翻譯卻完全相反,
我困惑自己因為不懂原文的優美程度跟用字意境,
所以在我看來白話又不優美的文詞,
在英文卻是優美而精深。
簡言之,我連英文文詞該如何代換中文文詞都不懂,
我僅能透過原文跟上下文推測意思,
要我翻譯,再過五年都嫌少,
這些翻譯是不得已而為之,
因為考了人,自己當然也得給答案。



留言者 philo-sopher
留言時間 2007-06-03 01:20:54
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

偉大的師父,謝謝。
是卡在shot out,
不是卡在 the porch lights



留言者 philo-sopher
留言時間 2007-06-03 01:21:43
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

腦筋,
[that "I had got out of my place (if I was going to vote along with the white man,")]
不是told的受詞,
它省略 he said,he是David Frost

應是
a white man had told him that "the white folks are the nigger's friend as long as the nigger stays in his place," but he said that "I had got out of my place if I was going to vote along with the white man,"



留言者 philo-sopher
留言時間 2007-06-03 01:22:29
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

Mae,
我英文只學到高一,
重拾英文也只有一年八個月,
這一年八個月就算天天唸英文,所唸也是很有限,
我唸過的英文絕對沒有你多。

我寫文章是不得已,
裡面一定還是很多中式英文。



留言者 Mae
留言時間 2007-06-03 01:22:32
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

師父:

在他註冊後的前幾年,(after he himself had registered some years before )

我的答案是:
after he himself had registered some years before, a white man had told him that.....
"在幾年前他就爲自己登記之後,ㄧ位白人就這麼告訴過他....."這樣的解釋對嗎?

留言者 陳達武老師
留言時間 2007-06-03 01:30:43
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

Mae & 小子
我也還沒睡,看今晚誰失眠最慘
二位的解答都不對,你們都想太多了,偏離了人之常情,其實,你們自己心裏也覺得這樣的解釋怪怪的,是不是?

留言者 陳達武老師
留言時間 2007-06-03 01:36:03
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

更正:
  Mae 的解釋是對的: "在幾年前他爲自己登記之後,....."先解 some years before, 再解 after he himself had registered 不就好了?
小子,最近大概忙得筋疲力竭,再休息幾天再說吧,讓腦袋放輕鬆一下才會學得更多

留言者 philo-sopher
留言時間 2007-06-03 01:36:42
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

師父,不玩了,
五億公里障礙賽,等我再跑100公里再回來解。



留言者 philo-sopher
留言時間 2007-06-03 01:39:30
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

嗯,很好,又學到一課,好辛苦呀~~~
師父,太抬舉我了,實際上我的實力就是如此。


留言者 Mae
留言時間 2007-06-03 19:14:36
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

我ㄧ直有個疑題,但望師父及師兄來釋疑!

有關 ,and how....照 Philo-sopher 的正式文法詮釋是:對等連接詞連接, and 是連接詞 : 四個 how 是開頭的子句

而我就是很喜歡簡單化,我的詮釋就是" 然後..."
可能因為我很懶得套用複雜的文法公式,所以我就以上下文去推斷它的詮釋。敬請教導,我的方法可行否?

留言者 philo-sopher
留言時間 2007-06-04 02:37:13
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

這一題由師父來解釋會比較適當。

師父,您該不會前天熬一夜,睡到今天還沒醒吧?
好吧,量您太辛苦,就睡到禮拜三吧,
這比關禁閉好不到哪去。



留言者 陳達武老師
留言時間 2007-06-04 08:41:28
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容


這一題先由小徒弟助教小子代答即可,師父要去閉關了,不然週三讓同事以為我閒閒沒事做。

留言者 philo-sopher
留言時間 2007-06-04 12:36:39
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

Mae,
中文的『然後』有時間順序意涵,
但英文的and並沒有,
這裡只說David Frost would never forget四個 how所說的事情,
這之間完全不涉及時間順序的問題,
作者用and連接那四件事情,
一方面是文法需要,
一方面是句意較清楚,
如果她省略前兩個and,以逗點代替,這樣文法不算錯,
但是讀者會更辛苦,而且句意容易混淆。


師父,這樣通過考試了嗎?



留言者 Mae
留言時間 2007-06-04 14:07:35
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

謝謝助教的說明,我懂了!
還是別亂翻譯,師父不理我們就慘了!

留言者 陳達武老師
留言時間 2007-06-06 14:34:55
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

小子
幹得好!


留言者 明光
留言時間 2007-06-06 22:04:55
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

Dear Philo-sopher:
短短的三個字---"幹得好",抵得上30瓶雞精,夠您進補熬夜的身子,好好保養,同學需要您。

留言者 philo-sopher
留言時間 2007-06-07 02:07:39
標題 Re:抓主結構或翻譯-3
留言內容

明光學長,您太不了解師父了,
那三個字一瓶雞精都買不起,
意思就是我還需要再努力。

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